Head Standards

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by BlueScope, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. OP
    BlueScope

    BlueScope Member

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    I'm proposing a rule modification that makes gross negligence a role-bannable offense, for Heads only. I argue this because the performance of a Head impacts the round for others. If a Head is not doing their job, it has a much wider impact than an Doctor slacking off in the bar. As it stands, the IC consequences of negligence are not sufficient to discourage poor Head behavior.

    Ideally, this ban would be temporary and initially very brief, but escalating with repeated offenses. This would help weed out the individuals who - for example - simply play Captain for that juicy all access.

    I believe that this system is a better alternative to whitelisting Head roles - which many other servers do - and plays well with the fact that Hippie is much more relaxed.
     
  2. TheLoLKing

    TheLoLKing Member

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    TheLoLSwat
    >inb4 captains are banned for not doing routine checks on every department every 5 minutes

    This isn't HRP
     
  3. DinduStuffin

    DinduStuffin Game Admin Staff Member Game Admin

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    dindustuffin
    >Hippie is more relaxed
    >So let's make the rules less relaxed
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2017 ---
    The most I'd like to see have standards is that if you're a head, you do your job for that department instead of running around powergaming unless you're Captain or HOS which basically means your job is powergaming.

    Hopcurity and HOP powergamers can fuck off though. HOP shouldn't be a job that's just 'self appointed second captain.'
     
  4. 2dollarbill

    2dollarbill Game Admin Staff Member Game Admin

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    2Dollarbill
    HoP is the head of Cargo, Botany, Bar, Kitchen, Library, and Chapel. He is the civilian head and to an extent second in command. I see a reason for him to exist but the way people play the HoP is down right criminal.
     
  5. Doobiedoo23

    Doobiedoo23 Game Master Staff Member Game Master

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    impose this on hopcurity
     
  6. fake_h

    fake_h Member

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    CommandoKoishi
    "hi i'm bluescope i want to make the game harder both mechanically and socially because 'MUH BALANCE MUH POWERGAMER WEEDING OUT' xd"
     
  7. DinduStuffin

    DinduStuffin Game Admin Staff Member Game Admin

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    That's ironic considering your admin application, Koishi.
     
  8. OP
    BlueScope

    BlueScope Member

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    BlueScope
    Didn't suggest it was. I'm advocating a system that would punish Heads who do don't do Head things. We're not Heavy RP, so I would never suggest expanding this to all positions - just to the people who are supposed to be responsible for everyone else. The Heads. If you want to go play traitor deathmatch, play traitor deathmatch.

    For example - a while back I was playing Bartender, and an RD decided to make it his life's mission to destroy the entire bar. I'm not saying something like that should be against the rules for a non-head, but Heads should be held to a higher standard.

    A second example - just today I arrested a Captain for releasing prisoners before their time was up, for no reason. I immediately left the brig, because I knew he'd lynch me for arresting him (if only for three minutes). This is what I mean when I say in the OP that IC measures to counter job abandonment or abuse by Heads are insufficient. In order for the game to function as intended, there has to be an OOC consequence to being an abusive shitler. I wish it wasn't that way, but that's where we are.

    Hippie is more relaxed, yes. As it stands, the only people who would need to change their style of play are people who are abusing Head positions to do things like HoPcurity. I have never actually seen the HoP perform his duties as 2doller describes.

    I'm sorry that you see it that way. I think mechanically it would simplify the game immensely, since at the very least Heads could be relied upon to do their job. I'm not sure what you mean by making things more difficult socially, can you explain that please? Yes, part of the idea is to make things more balanced, but the principle focus was not on powergaming. I'm not sure why you're against something that would balance the game.

    Also I'm thinking you'd be a poor choice for admin, since you can't seem to have a rational discussion. Maybe emulate the current administration for a start, instead of, say, dwright.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 1:05 AM
  9. Omnitricks

    Omnitricks Member

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    I believe at the very least, anyone playing captain should know to secure the disk and not give it to the OPs for pizza or whatever have you. Otherwise they might as well go grey and steal all access somehow.
     
  10. MethMedic

    MethMedic Well-Known Member Ex-Admin

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    Honestly, leaving the HOP desk before waiting 10 minutes should be grounds for a job ban. I don't know how many times in my many many rounds played that I spawned in at round start and didn't like my job, so I'd go to the HOP to find it empty then see him 5 minutes later decked out in powergamig gear he robbed from the cap and hos
     
  11. TheLoLKing

    TheLoLKing Member

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    TheLoLSwat
    Heads of staff are usually never responsible for the ones in their department. If i find a chemist dead and naked in xenobiology, i wont kick down CMOs doors. Heads shouldnt BE responsible for their department workers when 2/3 of them fuck off roundstart

    Just normal RD being a cuck, shouldve ahelped if you think it was as fucked up as you say

    Hes the captain, its his station / brig after all.all you had to do was catch them again, strip headsets, and gulag so cap wouldnt find out.

    It'll be hard to get all heads to do their job when most of them dont really have jobs.

    Captain : All he HAS to do is grab the disk, he can just hide it in his safe and fuck off
    HOP : Change IDs, can deny and and all request
    HOS : Fuck off and look for valids (as long as a warden can watch armory)
    CMO : Set up cryo, however, you can get away with not doing it
    RD : Nothing.
    CE : Set up engine, however, you can get away with not doing it

    The only heads that can be bothered to do ANYTHING are HOP (who can straight deny all request, however, this can and will fuck you over in the long run) CMO (who can fuck off) and CE (who can fuck off)

    The game shouldnt be balanced to the point where a medical doctor is on even footing with CMO, or anyone being on equal footing with captain (the closest is HOP, but captain is still up by a longshot)

    The thing about HOP, is that while you have a job to do, it can become really tedious. With CMO, or CE (the only other heads with actual jobs to do), you can do your appointed job in a couple of seconds (CMO) or about >2 minutes (CE). With HOP, trying to stay in your office to do your job results in one of two things happening.
    1. You stay in your office for the duration of the round, changing about ~10 IDs (depending on round duration, and how many times you listen to the people that scream for all access)
    2. You die when antags find out you're trying to do #1,
    3. Something happens and you cant do your job as HOP (like power getting cut, or your office getting blown up)
    You can kinda relate it to playing support roles in games, you can help the team out (usually thanklessly) and you know you're doing a good job. OR you can be coooooooooool and switch to something more offensive and fun.
    In the absence of a captain, HOP should immediately go secure the captain's gear and kill any looters, and then ask the crew to PDA or something if they want a job change.
    The only thing i actively dislike and work against are HOPs that immediately (first 5 seconds) close shutters, get access, and disappear. Atleast stay for a bit to handle the roundstart wave of MUHHH ALLLLLL ACCCESSSSSSS
     
  12. DinduStuffin

    DinduStuffin Game Admin Staff Member Game Admin

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    dindustuffin
    >The thing about HOP, is that while you have a job to do, it can become really tedious.

    This is kinda my point. If the job as HOP is so tedious for you, don't do it. The job shouldn't be like you said at the bottom, where you just fuck off and get access. That's not only dumb, but pointless. Just go captain at that rate. If you don't get captain, suck it up.
     
    MethMedic and BlueScope like this.
  13. TheLoLKing

    TheLoLKing Member

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    i'd be cool if it was J U S T tedious, but you see what else you can do as HOP while sitting back at your office, and its really tempting. As long as you go to your office when people call on radio (or PDA), you could do what you want to do (whether it be genetics, xenobiology, or helping sec)
     
  14. 2dollarbill

    2dollarbill Game Admin Staff Member Game Admin

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    >Or helping security

    Your job isn't to help security, your job is to monitor the civilian areas and alter ID changes if reasonable. Your job is not to go full hopcurity and chase after traitors, the CMO, CE, or RD never do that to the extreme intent in which HoP is doing. HoP is suppose to be the first line of complaint if anything goes wrong with a certain sector and if the head is not available. Your job is to take action for minor things instead of the captain. If you find any of these tedious to do, then the HoP is not for you. I've seen plenty of people play HoP as intended and actually do better than HoPcurity (Assisting Cargo with ordering/ordering crates he needs, helping botany/monitoring botany, actually supporting the chaplain for his religious needs, etc.)
     
  15. Banthebantz

    Banthebantz Well-Known Member

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    lolswat on suicide watch
     
  16. TheLoLKing

    TheLoLKing Member

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    You can do both, as long as you go to your office when people call and make sure service / cargo arent on suicide watch, there shouldnt be a problem with doing other things as HOP.

    because of 2 reasons
    1. They cant obtain easy access to security
    2. They can start the round as antagonist

    HOP shouldnt have to take responsibility for something happening in science and RD is looking for kewl space geeeeear.

    >mfw HOP isnt for me because i dont enjoy dealing with the shit when someone stubs their toe and the head is getting high somewhere, or if CE dies before engine is set up (somehow)

    Subjective, and HOPcurity isnt the only other way HOP is played, i've dedicated rounds to doing things like genetics or xenobiology as HOP, while still helping out crew if they need it






    [​IMG]
    me rn
     
  17. Aaaaaaaaaa

    Aaaaaaaaaa Active Member

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    Higitus
    I don't like this idea, it would be good because I cant tell you how many times I had a CE and maybe even a few engineers and power is never set up. But looking at this thread it just seems everyone hates a certain playstyle by the HoP, I agree if they leave withen a minute its kinda shit but you can always PDA message them to get their attention.
     
  18. Damous

    Damous Active Member

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    Damous
    KEK shits burning.


    I don't see HoP doing their job not even on VG, mind you on Hippie.

    If its not the way you retards want in a medium/low rp server then it shouldn't be on Hippie.
     
  19. DinduStuffin

    DinduStuffin Game Admin Staff Member Game Admin

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    So? We're hippie, not VG. We don't have to follow their rules.
     
  20. Aaaaaaaaaa

    Aaaaaaaaaa Active Member

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    Roll HoP and never leave your office all shift Dindu
     

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